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I have zoiper on my Android phone and kind of like it, but they want about $12 (EUR7.99) for G.729 codec. That's probably why the call quality seems a little poor, but it's a lot to invest if the less than optimal quality is something else.
What's the generally preferred softphone for Android these days? I don't mind paying something, and if the best is Zoiper-with-729, so be it. I also wouldn't mind getting something for Win 7 on my notebook, doesn't have to be the same software of course. So any advice along those lines would also be appreciated. I used to suggest CSipSimple here, but not now. From my experience, it could be a hit or a miss in terms of reliability. Depending on hardware, Android OS and version of its kernel, it may work or it may refuse to get calls at the time they arrive because the phone is in sleep state.
Later phone may wake up and start ringing, but what's the point to ring in a couple of minutes of actual call, right? In some versions of Android it may run, in others CSipSimple may just suddenly crash time to time (as in my case). And I guess it's not its fault, but rather it's a result of overall Android design (or rather lack of good one). In v2.2 Android there is no API to wake up registered SIP phone application when SIP request arrives via the network. Who would imagine that Android OS, made to run on phone, doesn't provide a way to wake up a phone application.
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You may try CSS with your particular phone and see if it's 'hit' in your case. If it's not, you may still use CSS as a good test phone - it's very flexible in its configuration. Regarding to 729 codec.
If your phone doesn't support it - no big deal. There are other (but free) good codecs, that support reduced bandwidth well, including GSM, SILK, ILBC, etc. Said by: Depending on hardware, Android OS and version of its kernel, it may work or it may refuse to get calls at the time they arrive because the phone is in sleep state. Later phone may wake up and start ringing, but what's the point to ring in a couple of minutes of actual call, right? In some versions of Android it may run, in others CSipSimple may just suddenly crash time to time (as in my case). And I guess it's not its fault, but rather it's a result of overall Android design (or rather lack of good one). In v2.2 Android there is no API to wake up registered SIP phone application when SIP request arrives via the network.
Who would imagine that Android OS, made to run on phone, doesn't provide a way to wake up a phone application.:( I used to have this problem. I solved it with one simple command in my Cisco router: ip nat translation udp-timeout 10. And by not qualifying the extension tied to my Android phone, so that the PBX isn't actively monitoring the connection status of the extension in the backend. As for the Cisco command, this tells the router to remove the UDP translation from the NAT table after 10 seconds of inactivity. For some reason after a period of time since last SIP peer connection, the invites stop coming in. It requires manually waking up the phone to resume connectivity. I have yet to miss a phone call to my Android phone via SIP ever since I put those two elements in place.
So far I've tested this on an HTC Sensation 4G running ICS and Jellybean, LG Optimus T running Gingerbread, and HTC Desire S also running Gingerbread. All work perfect. I never tested this on a stock Android ROM; I've only done this with stock Cyanogenmod ROMs and corresponding radio/bootloader firmware. Some of your freezing, unreliability issues may stem from carrier's typical crippling of native Android functionality. Also; contrary to popular belief or perhaps my experience was different; if you are behind NAT there is no need to open inbound RTP ports within the range of the open RTP ports in your PBX as long as you configure your SIP settings in the PBX to allow NAT'ing for devices outside the local network from where the PBX resides.
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My PBX happily negotiates an RTP port every time it sends an invite to my phone, and 9 times out of 10 there is bi-directional audio on the call. Quote: CSipSimple, Zoiper (IAX Support), 3CX, Bria. Thanks, I think I tried CSS a year ago but it was beta and I didn't find it as user friendly. Yesterday I couldn't find a 3CX except for their own service. Is there one that works with voip.ms? Quote: For Windows a good one is X-Lite. I remember that from years ago, I'll give it another look.
Quote: In my experience though, Android+softphone combinations seemed to have a lot of latency regardless of device/softphone/codec combination used. That's my concern with investing $12 in G.729 for Zoiper, that I'll find the call quality still isn't good enough. Quote: Indeed.
The CPU's in the phones don't seem to have enough mojo. Combined with the 4G latencies.
They just work mediocre at best. I wondered about CPUs in terms of codecs. I think G.711 takes less CPU and more bandwidth, and G.729 the opposite? Or do I have it backwards again? With today's Windows machines, extra processing is pretty cheap, though data is too.
With Android phone, is is better to take the higher-data-consumption/less-processor-power option? I have 6GB/mo on Telus and on WiFi a lot, so I'm not too concerned about data usage. Which codec should I be focussing on? Quote: I used to suggest CSipSimple here, but not now. From my experience, it could be a hit or a miss in terms of reliability. Thanks, I have an SIIx with JellyBean (4.1?).
Quote: Regarding to 729 codec. If your phone doesn't support it - no big deal. There are other (but free) good codecs, that support reduced bandwidth well, including GSM, SILK, ILBC, etc. With free Zoiper, my choices are Speex, GSM, uLaw, aLaw, iLBC30. I can pay $12 for g729, and g711 doesn't seem to be an option. Some of the other paid apps mentioned above do seem to offer g711. I only have 200min daytime and 10 Favourites (one of which is a local OneSuite number).
I usually don't hit the 200min, though I have only 6 minutes to get through today. So all my outgoing calls have been through OneSuite the last couple of days, or using free Zoiper (which is cheaper but lower call quality). OneSuite is inconvenient (have to enter the person's number manually) and doesn't handle the incoming, so I'm hoping to find a solution that will do both.
The call quality of free Zoiper (so far) hasn't been good enough for me to make it my incoming solution by default. Thanks again! Quote: I used to suggest CSipSimple here, but not now.
From my experience, it could be a hit or a miss in terms of reliability. Thanks, I have an SIIx with JellyBean (4.1?).I'd suggest you to try it then. My experience with custom ROM running Android 4.1.2 on the same phone was just fine. Unfortunately I can't use that version of Android because of the GPS problems with my phone.
Just watch if you can receive calls with CSS all the time. I know it's hard to do without your own PBX (make calls again and again when phone sleeps), but if you can - do it and see. Quote: Regarding to 729 codec. If your phone doesn't support it - no big deal. There are other (but free) good codecs, that support reduced bandwidth well, including GSM, SILK, ILBC, etc. With free Zoiper, my choices are Speex, GSM, uLaw, aLaw, iLBC30.
I can pay $12 for g729, and g711 doesn't seem to be an option. Some of the other paid apps mentioned above do seem to offer g711. (or aLaw, depending on algorithm used).
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So, don't worry. If developer mentioned that phone app supports one of those, it's fine.
BTW, I found g711 codec has a bad lost packet recovery. If network drops some RTP packets, you'll hear it immediately.
Other codecs (e.g. SILK) behave better with that respect. Said by: For some reason after a period of time since last SIP peer connection, the invites stop coming in. It requires manually waking up the phone to resume connectivity.After many (and I mean - many) tests, I'm confident that the problem is with inability of Android (in my case v2.2) to wake up phone app when network packet arrives. What I see is all network packets (SIP/INVITE requests) are getting into phone in time and just cached in its network driver.
Next time phone wakes up - they're all processed by app (they become obsolete at that time). It's certainly the problem with Android, which should wake up registered app while getting network packet events and it doesn't. Solution offered by some (which is not actually solution - it drains battery like crazy) was - do not put phone in sleep mode. CSS developer knows about the issue form many, many complaints (you may find huge threads discussing the complaints). But he can't do anything about that, except recommendation to upgrade Android on the phone (sometimes requiring updating the phone itself). You now have me curious to try out Froyo with CSipSimple and see if I can reproduce that issue. I found the for the LG Optimus T phone that I still own.
If I get some time tonight, I shall test it. I'd think a phone running Froyo is at least three years old, sporting sub 600 MHz ARM processor and a communications chip that uploads much slower than newer breed of HSUPA-enabled controllers. It's probably not going to handle SIP calling all that well via cellular. But I will test it and report back. Said by: quote: CSipSimple, Zoiper (IAX Support), 3CX, Bria. Yesterday I couldn't find a 3CX except for their own service.
Is there one that works with voip.ms?It appears that 3XC has pulled their '3CXPhone for VoiP Providers' app from Google Play. Here's a Google Cache of the play store page (forum software munged the link, so it'll have to be copied/pasted): The last version was dated March 5, 2013, and if you are really interested in trying it, search for version 2.0.5. Said by: OneSuite is inconvenient (have to enter the person's number manually) and doesn't handle the incoming, so I'm hoping to find a solution that will do both.
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Once you figure out which android app works best for you, please consider setting up OneSuite as a backup, outbound provider to VoIP.MS. OneSuite offers SIP access at no extra charge (Internet Broadband Access), but it needs to be manually enabled, and since it's outbound only, maintaining SIP registration (for inbound calls) is not necessary. A call needs to be made once every 6 months to keep the OneSuite account active. Once the android app is integrated with the dialer, you can use the android contacts list. Said by: For some reason after a period of time since last SIP peer connection, the invites stop coming in. It requires manually waking up the phone to resume connectivity.After many (and I mean - many) tests, I'm confident that the problem is with inability of Android (in my case v2.2) to wake up phone app when network packet arrives. What I see is all network packets (SIP/INVITE requests) are getting into phone in time and just cached in its network driver.
Next time phone wakes up - they're all processed by app (they become obsolete at that time). It's certainly the problem with Android, which should wake up registered app while getting network packet events and it doesn't. Solution offered by some (which is not actually solution - it drains battery like crazy) was - do not put phone in sleep mode. CSS developer knows about the issue form many, many complaints (you may find huge threads discussing the complaints). But he can't do anything about that, except recommendation to upgrade Android on the phone (sometimes requiring updating the phone itself). I use CSipSimple on Android and have a very similar experience.
CSipSimple is an open-source project on Google Code. There are a couple of solutions to fix this problem, though it will involve another server. Google Cloud Messaging (server push) can be used to let the client app know that a call is coming, and wake up the app. In order to do that, you have to have a server to push that from. I'll have to do that on Asterisk, and modify the CSipSimple client. I bet that will make it rock solid.
(The reason no one has done it is because you need a server to push the notification in the middle.) Sounds like a fun app to do. I use CSipSimple on a Motorola Atrix and works acceptably. Running on Android 2.3.6, connected to my Asterisk server. I also have freeswitch server that I found audibly sounds better, at this point not sure why, could be handling of the transcoding. It wakes the phone fine when on WiFi ( this is when I only use it ). On windows I use a bunch of apps, and depending on your needs each one has its feature set.
If you need or want IAX support, Zoiper. CounterPath has a few good options, x-Lite is free but only allows a single sip registration and no g729, EyeBeam or Bria cost $ but have g729 and multiple sip registrations. If you want one integrated into an IM messenger, try Jitsi, it also supports presence detection which is great if you have a bunch of people hung off your own pbx. If you like to experiment and play, there is FSCLient, which actually has an embedded freeswitch implementation running under the covers, you can add plugins for added functionality and you can skin it ( source code is up on GitHub ). Handles everything but g729. And if you want a very basic app which is portable ( as in can run from a USB key ), and very resource light, try MicroSIP.
Quote: I'd suggest you to try CSipSimple then. Thanks, I may do that. Quote: With free Zoiper, my choices are Speex, GSM, uLaw, aLaw, iLBC30. I can pay $12 for g729, and g711 doesn't seem to be an option.
Some of the other paid apps mentioned above do seem to offer g711. G711 is uLaw (or aLaw, depending on algorithm used). So, don't worry.
If developer mentioned that phone app supports one of those, it's fine. BTW, I found g711 codec has a bad lost packet recovery. If network drops some RTP packets, you'll hear it immediately. Other codecs (e.g. SILK) behave better with that respect. If free Zoiper is offering 5 different codecs, should I check all 5 or just one? And if g711 can be problematic in a suboptimal environment (e.g.
Cell network), should I hunt for one that does SILK, or use one of the others in free Zoiper? Is there any reason to pay extra for g729, either by upgrading Zoiper or paying for another app that has it? Quote: It appears that 3XC has pulled their '3CXPhone for VoiP Providers' app from Google Play. The last version was dated March 5, 2013, and if you are really interested in trying it, search for version 2.0.5. Not that important I think, unless it's wildly better than the others. Quote: I'm not familiar with Telus' plans, so I'm guessing that calling a Favourites number does not count against the daytime minutes? Yes sorry, it's like My10 or Fav10 or whatever the others call it.
They come in 5 or 10 numbers, and local or nationwide, depending on the package and promotion. Mine's 10 Favourites Nationwide, so I can call OneSuite's Ottawa access number from anywhere in Canada and talk all day for no charge from Telus. Voip.ms is cheaper of course but in this case I'm using unlimited airtime (on my 10 Favourites) instead of limited but high (6GB) data. Quote: OneSuite offers SIP access at no extra charge (Internet Broadband Access), but it needs to be manually enabled, and since it's outbound only, maintaining SIP registration (for inbound calls) is not necessary. Once the android app is integrated with the dialer, you can use the android contacts list.
I actually installed the OneSuite app last winter and found it a massive PITA. I had installed it so I didn't have to memorize the number I was calling but could call straight from the contact list, but it never seemed to work right, had really bad sound quality, and a bunch of problems I don't recall. It lasted about 3 days on my phone and then was gone. Thanks everyone, both those I quoted above and those I didn't. This has been very helpful to me and I may be back for more info.
Said by: If free Zoiper is offering 5 different codecs, should I check all 5 or just one? And if g711 can be problematic in a suboptimal environment (e.g. Cell network), should I hunt for one that does SILK, or use one of the others in free Zoiper?It depends of what you want to achieve. If you want to force one coded (usually for a test) you may set only that codec (no other codecs will be used). If you allow set of codecs - SIP will negotiate with both sides which one to use in every particular case. Usually both sides have their own sets of codecs in some particular order, based on priorities. Sounds like I should leave as many codecs chosen as are available.
Wasn't sure if with voip.ms it would be 'always use this one'. As for paying for g729 or other features, of course I'd prefer no to, but the mere fact they include g711 but charge $12 for g729 implies that g729 is 'better' (presumably better sound quality or reliabilitiy or something). Not always the case that more expensive = better, of course, but without making a list it's appeared that g729 isn't free (either it's an upgrade like Zoiper, or other apps that include it are paid to start). Thanks again for the expert advice! Said by: quote: OneSuite offers SIP access at no extra charge (Internet Broadband Access), but it needs to be manually enabled, and since it's outbound only, maintaining SIP registration (for inbound calls) is not necessary. Once the android app is integrated with the dialer, you can use the android contacts list. I actually installed the OneSuite app last winter and found it a massive PITA.I should have been more concise, but it's a moot point since calling the local OneSuite access number doesn't count against your air time.
I should have written: Once you have decided on CSipSimple, ZoIPer, or Bria for your smartphone, please consider adding your OneSuite account details to CSipSimple, ZoIPer, or Bria. This would give you the option of using OneSuite as a backup to VoIP.MS, just in case a worst case scenario occurs. Said by: but the mere fact they include g711 but charge $12 for g729 implies that g729 is 'better' (presumably better sound quality or reliabilitiy or something). Not always the case that more expensive = better, of course, but without making a list it's appeared that g729 isn't free (either it's an upgrade like Zoiper, or other apps that include it are paid to start).It costs because royalties have to be paid to the creator/patent holder, Sipro Lab Telecom.
Not necessarily because it is 'better'.